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Berketex bride

Well the good news is that feorag is here. The bad news is that she's getting married. I don't know what to say, I really don't...

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( 39 comments — Leave a comment )
the_maenad
11th Jul, 2002 06:26 (UTC)
Er... "Congratulations, Feorag" might be a possible starter for ten...
purplerabbits
11th Jul, 2002 06:31 (UTC)
I guess you haven't been exposed to my Views on marriage much, have you :-)

Seriously, how is one couple's marriage after ten years of relationship worthy of congratulations, where another couple's merely being together for that long isn't?
the_maenad
11th Jul, 2002 06:39 (UTC)
Jesus, pardon me for breathing.
(no subject) - purplerabbits - 11th Jul, 2002 06:41 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_maenad - 11th Jul, 2002 06:47 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ciphergoth - 11th Jul, 2002 06:59 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_maenad - 11th Jul, 2002 07:02 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ciphergoth - 11th Jul, 2002 07:10 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_maenad - 11th Jul, 2002 07:11 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ciphergoth - 11th Jul, 2002 08:01 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - djm4 - 11th Jul, 2002 07:23 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_maenad - 11th Jul, 2002 07:55 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sashajwolf - 11th Jul, 2002 11:26 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - djm4 - 11th Jul, 2002 23:52 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ciphergoth - 12th Jul, 2002 01:41 (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - hfnuala - 11th Jul, 2002 07:35 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ciphergoth - 11th Jul, 2002 06:44 (UTC) - Expand
Web of trust - babysimon - 11th Jul, 2002 07:15 (UTC) - Expand
Re: Web of trust - mhw - 11th Jul, 2002 07:28 (UTC) - Expand
djm4
11th Jul, 2002 07:02 (UTC)
Seriously, how is one couple's marriage after ten years of relationship worthy of congratulations, where another couple's merely being together for that long isn't?

I'm not taking that as a given.

I distinctly remember celebrating your ten year anniversary with Paul last Easter. I'm sorry if it wasn't a 'worthy' enough celebration for you but, well, it was your party at your house, so you did kinda set the level yourselves.
(no subject) - hfnuala - 11th Jul, 2002 07:18 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_maenad - 11th Jul, 2002 07:23 (UTC) - Expand
ciphergoth
11th Jul, 2002 06:43 (UTC)
What vision is left, and is anyone asking?
ergotia
11th Jul, 2002 07:29 (UTC)
Marriage, committment ceremony, handfasting - what is the point of *any* of it? If your relationship is something to celebrate,that fact will be obvious every day, why ask any person or institution to sanctify it?
babysimon
11th Jul, 2002 07:49 (UTC)
why ask any person or institution to sanctify it?

Is that what a Commitment Ceremony is about? If so, who or what was the person or institution in mine and Trish's case?

(and no, DBAM is not an institution...)
ajva
11th Jul, 2002 07:53 (UTC)
boom boom
...although we should all be put in one.

har de har
ergotia
11th Jul, 2002 07:54 (UTC)
It is a group of persons though,is it not?

And if that is not what it was about , then you tell me what it *was* about - no one has ever been able to explain it to me.
(no subject) - babysimon - 11th Jul, 2002 08:04 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ergotia - 11th Jul, 2002 15:03 (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - trishpiglet - 12th Jul, 2002 08:19 (UTC) - Expand
Re: - ergotia - 12th Jul, 2002 08:23 (UTC) - Expand
djm4
11th Jul, 2002 08:02 (UTC)
Because I want to.

That's actually all the reason I feel I need. I don't go a bundle on there having to be some big, spritual, abstract 'point' to things.

But, just to be clear, it's got nothing to do with a belief that such a ceremony makes my relationship 'better' or 'stronger' than one where the people concerned haven't had a similar ceremony. I don't believe this and, given my current circle of friends, it looks like an obviously laughable conclusion to me.

Liz and I are having a ceremony because it feel right to us, and because it will mean a lot to me to stand up in front of friends and family and tell them how much Liz means to me, and to ask them for their support in keeping our relationship going over the coming years. But I'm not trying to suggest that it would mean the same for everyone else - it's a personal thing.

You remember all the fuss last year over people remembering or not remembering Lil's birthday? It's like that. It matters to some people, and other people just can't see the point at all, but it's not a case of one person being right and the other being wrong; just different priorities and upbringing.

Plus it's a damn good excuse for a party.
sashajwolf
11th Jul, 2002 11:36 (UTC)
For me, it's that I'm wired in such a way that ritual makes a difference to the way I feel about things. I am pretty certain from my experience with aegidian that I will feel more committed to djm4 after the ceremony than I did before, because there are parts of me that only ritual reaches, and those parts need the ritual in order to feel committed. I appreciate that it doesn't work that way for everyone, but it does for me, and I want to extend the commitment to those levels. And to the extent that any sanctifying happens, it will be me doing it (I say me and not us because djm4 isn't a spiritual person); we're having someone to officiate because it's ritually convenient, not because we need their say-so.
ajva
11th Jul, 2002 07:38 (UTC)
a thought...
What if one partner is adamant that they want to marry, and the other is adamant that they do not? What does one do in that situation? Split up? Seems a shame.

I am just looking for suggestions here, by the way, in case anyone I love ever asks me to marry them.
hfnuala
11th Jul, 2002 07:47 (UTC)
Re: a thought...
Living together? Explore other ways of declaring commitment? It seems to me that the most pernicious part of the all pervasiveness of marriage as the 'end goal' of a relationship is the assumption that somehow not wanting to get married is a less strong emotion than wanting to get married.

ajva
11th Jul, 2002 07:52 (UTC)
Re: a thought...
Yes but those suggestions would still be "not getting married" in the eyes of the person who wanted to get married. It really does seem like an unsolvable problem: "irresistable force and unmoveable object in the same universe"-type problem. I suppose the answer would have to be negotiation on a case-by-case basis.
Re: a thought... - the_maenad - 11th Jul, 2002 07:56 (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
11th Jul, 2002 11:15 (UTC)
Welcome to the conundrum ...
This whole storm in a teacup is essentially about the collision between what is and what should be.

"What is" -- unmarried people are at a disadvantage in various ways, not least of which are inheritance laws. Marriage, while originally a religious institution, is used by the state as a tool of social control.

"What should be" -- in a perfect world there'd be no such discriminatory system: groups of any number of any gender could adopt whatever contractual or religious arrangements they like.

Principles are good, but you can't eat them ... in our case, not getting married imperils Feorag's future well-being in event of my death, because our home is owned in my name and its value is already perilously close to the inheritance tax threshold.

We are not getting married because of superstitious belief in some acorporeal ghost, a desire to satisfy the tribal elders, a sudden urge to spawn, a belief that signing a book magically changes the nature of a relationship, because if we don't publicly swear to have sex only with each other we'll inevitably drift apart, or because our brains have been taken over by alien space bats with mind control rays.

Given that we're going to do it, we've decided to do so in Amsterdam (a less discriminatory venue than the UK), and we've decided to throw a party, if possible. We want to have a party because (a) it's our tenth anniversary, and (b) we haven't had a party for ages, and the excuse to hold a big party with a sub-text that's all about rampant sex seems to be the one aspect of the whole wedding thing that is remotely appealing.

Questions?



-- Charlie
( 39 comments — Leave a comment )