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Goth or Not

Here is a selection of the perkigoth.com playlist for this afternoon. So, it is Goth, or Not?
Poll #39959 Goth or Not?

The Last Dance - Do You Believe In Angels

Mean: 6.00 Median: 8 Std. Dev 3.56
1
1(33.3%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
0(0.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
0(0.0%)
8
1(33.3%)
9
1(33.3%)
10
0(0.0%)

Missing Persons - Give

Mean: 4.67 Median: 6 Std. Dev 2.62
1
1(33.3%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
0(0.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
1(33.3%)
7
1(33.3%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Men Without Hats - The Safety Dance

Mean: 2.00 Median: 2 Std. Dev 1.10
1
2(40.0%)
2
2(40.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
1(20.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
0(0.0%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Love And Rockets - Ball Of Confusion

Mean: 5.00 Median: 5 Std. Dev 2.45
1
1(20.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
1(20.0%)
5
1(20.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
1(20.0%)
8
1(20.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

The Cult - She Sells Sanctuary

Mean: 7.60 Median: 7 Std. Dev 2.24
1
0(0.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
1(20.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
2(40.0%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
2(40.0%)

The Cure - Cut Here

Mean: 6.40 Median: 8 Std. Dev 2.42
1
0(0.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
1(20.0%)
4
1(20.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
0(0.0%)
8
2(40.0%)
9
1(20.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Chameleons - Swampthing

Mean: 6.25 Median: 7 Std. Dev 3.56
1
1(25.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
0(0.0%)
5
1(25.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
0(0.0%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
1(25.0%)
10
1(25.0%)

Depeche Mode - Fools - Bigger

Mean: 6.25 Median: 5.5 Std. Dev 2.28
1
0(0.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
1(25.0%)
5
1(25.0%)
6
1(25.0%)
7
0(0.0%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
1(25.0%)

The Danse Society - Say It Again - extended danse mix

Mean: 5.75 Median: 7 Std. Dev 2.77
1
1(25.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
0(0.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
2(50.0%)
8
1(25.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Simple Minds - Dont You Forget About Me

Mean: 3.60 Median: 2 Std. Dev 2.87
1
1(20.0%)
2
2(40.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
1(20.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
0(0.0%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
1(20.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Secession - The Magician - pecky plus mix

Mean: 4.67 Median: 6 Std. Dev 2.62
1
1(33.3%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
0(0.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
1(33.3%)
7
1(33.3%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Pop Will Eat Itself - X Y and Zee

Mean: 3.00 Median: 3 Std. Dev 1.58
1
1(25.0%)
2
1(25.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
1(25.0%)
5
1(25.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
0(0.0%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Lena Lovich - New Toy

Mean: 5.00 Median: 4.5 Std. Dev 2.55
1
0(0.0%)
2
1(25.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
1(25.0%)
5
1(25.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
0(0.0%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
1(25.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Thompson Twins - Lies

Mean: 2.80 Median: 1 Std. Dev 2.40
1
3(60.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
1(20.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
1(20.0%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Talking Heads - Road To Nowhere

Mean: 2.60 Median: 1 Std. Dev 2.06
1
3(60.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
1(20.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
1(20.0%)
7
0(0.0%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Tags:

Comments

( 16 comments — Leave a comment )
adjectivemarcus
12th Jun, 2002 08:32 (UTC)
I can't reply as I have no idea what makes music goth or not, and nor do I recognise many of the above.

However, the ones I do recognise I think I like, so my question would be - are you enjoying the tape?
purplerabbits
12th Jun, 2002 08:44 (UTC)
Is not tape, is my favourite web radio station, but even though I love it it is a bit, um, quirky sometimes...
adjectivemarcus
12th Jun, 2002 08:51 (UTC)
Ah! Hmmm, must bring some headphones into work then...
duranorak
12th Jun, 2002 09:54 (UTC)
I'd imagine a band called The Last Dance are goth, though I've never heard of them. Missing Persons are Not Goth, they are New Wave. Men Without Hats - you must be bloody joking. Love And Rockets I've only vaguely heard of. The Cult are Goth By Default, but though I love that song, It's A Bit Predictable Isn't It. Ditto The Cure, though I've always maintained that they're Not Actually Goth. Chameleons I've no idea, DM are probably Goth By Default these days as well which is a bit of a shame, Danse Society are Goth. Simple Minds? And that song, as well? Not a chance. Secession I've not heard of, Pop Will Eat Itself are whatever you make of them, Lene Lovich is the Goth end of New Wave (I bet they play The Mobiles as well), and the TTwins and Talking Heads couldn't be goth if they dressed up in the entire wardrobe of Black Rose and superglued their hands to their foreheads.

So there.

E.
x
mrph
12th Jun, 2002 10:43 (UTC)
TLD are goth. Or, at least, they get played at goth nights and invited to play goth festivals (although so do Soft Cell, so that's not entirely definitive)

Love and Rockets have Bauhaus connections iirc, which gives them some goth points by osmosis.

I'll agree about the Cult (the new album's not bad at all, btw) and the Cure.

Chameleons... er... well, it's definitely "music liked by goths" (especially Swamp Thing), even if it's not actually goth. Ditto for DM. Goths are usually there, but definitely in the minority, when either band plays live.

And I'll agree about the other bands, too. Although one of these days I am going to play the Thompson Twins (probably something from Quick Step & Side Kicks) at some poor unsuspecting goth night. I think 'Judy Do' or 'All Fall Out' would make a rather nice 'lights up' song..
duranorak
12th Jun, 2002 11:08 (UTC)
I wouldn't say that Soft Cell had no goth elements though - although I suspect they'd fiercely deny it.
Anyone with Bauhaus connections does indeed get immediate goth points. I'm very, very fond of the Cult and liked what I heard of the new album - I wasn't being disparaging about anything but the frequency with which She Sells Sanctuary is played. I am agreed with about The Cure? That's a first for me. ~g~ Thank you.
Ah, "music liked by goths" - that'll be it then. Have the goths who listen to DM ever actually listened to any of their albums *other* than Black Celebration and Songs Of Faith And Devotion? Just curious. ~g~

I'm a big Thompson Twins fan (and I think 'Judy Do' is worth trying, yes, but 'Into The Gap' would be damn funny) - but then I'm a New Romantic with a synthesiser obsession, not a goth, so that's not so surprising.

It's awfully gratifying to be agreed with about music. ~smile~ Thank you...

E.
x
mrph
12th Jun, 2002 16:41 (UTC)
Denying goth connections is a bit counterproductive when you keep playing gothfests - and Soft Cell seem to be playing all the European gothfests this year (I just missed 'em at Leipzig's Wave Gotik Treffen, a month or so back), so they've not got a leg to stand on there.

Then again, Eldritch claims that the Sisters of Mercy aren't goth either, doesn't he? ;)

As for the Cure... not a fan. That's not "Not A Fan", just... well, not especially impressed. Until this year, I didn't actually own any. It's always seemed a little to the side of goth (whatever goth is), "goth lite", possibly. Hereabouts, it's almost never been played in the clubs and very few of the black-clad hordes seem to like it.

For DM... well, there was more than enough discussion on the newsgroups (and reviews in the 'zines) when Exciter came out. And a few tracks from Ultra still crop up in a lot of club playlists. So it's fair to say that it's more than a specific couple of albums...

Whatever scathe's (excellent) History of Goth might say, I reckon there are a lot of ex-New Romantic goths out there. If there weren't, people my age wouldn't dance to Adam Ant / Scarlet Fantastic / Propaganda / Visage when they got played in goth clubs, now would they? And bands such as Manuskript, with their definite 80s influence (highly recommended, btw), wouldn't have quite such a following.

Oh... *evil grin*... and now that I think about it... I actually heard Safety Dance played at a goth night about a week ago (@ Convergence). It packed the dancefloor. Heh. :)
duranorak
13th Jun, 2002 05:16 (UTC)
He doesn't really claim that the Sisters aren't goth, does he? My god. What does he claim they are, then?
Mind you, Dani from Cradle Of Filth did call his own music "heavy funk", but I think he might have been joking.

I like a couple of The Cure's songs, but that just for a good melody or decent lyrics - I can't understand why people get so into them.
So is/was Gary Numan goth, then? ~grin~

Oh, Ultra. Yeah, I was wondering about that. And bits of Violator, I guess. And I suppose Exciter did 'I Feel Love' on it, and any song that has the line "In the dark night of my soul"...
I was, I suppose, thinking more of Speak & Spell and Some Great Reward and so on...

Well, modern goth is sort of where New Romantic *went* - not so much musically, but certainly style-wise. (Whitby proves that beyond a doubt.) Propaganda weren't New Romantic though. ~s~ In style terms, goth today seems to be centred around excuses to dress up A Lot, go out, and dance to stuff nobody else is playing anywhere. If that isn't the New Romantic ethos I don't know what is.

Safety Dance isn't a bad track, I guess. It's just...Not Goth. ~s~

E.
x
mrph
18th Jun, 2002 08:34 (UTC)
Just to revisit this...
I've just discovered that South African goth band The Awakening have done a cover version of... wait for it... The Safety Dance.

(Well, ok, it made me laugh... :)
duranorak
21st Jun, 2002 05:19 (UTC)
~laughs~ Oh, brilliant!
"We can mope if we want to..."

There's a "Gothic People"-style parody in there somewhere...

E.
x
cyberinsekt
12th Jun, 2002 12:37 (UTC)
Love And Rockets were essentially Bauhaus minus Pete Murphy. One of the best live acts I've ever seen, especially with a bare-chested Kevin Haskins giving it his all on the drum kit... ahem. Not what I'd have called goth, but <troll>I've never really understood this goth reclamation of alternative '80s stuff.</troll>
ciphergoth
12th Jun, 2002 12:46 (UTC)
...as if these words are well defined about to have an argument about that sort of thing. I'll take the piss when Andrew Eldritch claims not to be goth; short of that, who cares?
duranorak
12th Jun, 2002 13:11 (UTC)
I care because I'm a music geek and people's differing opinions about music intrigue me.
~shrug~

E.
x
ciphergoth
12th Jun, 2002 13:18 (UTC)
I only meant that we don't care enough to get very heated about it, so when cyberinsekt marks what he says with <troll> tags, he may not meet with success :-) I'm not suggesting we do away with musical categorisation altogether.
mrph
12th Jun, 2002 13:47 (UTC)
*nods*
I'd agree. Goth is no longer a genre identified by a specific sound, it's a genre identified by who listens to you. Well, ok, arguably.

So you can sound like The Chaos Engine ("abrasive industrial cacophony"), In Extremo (folk-influenced metal with bagpipes) Wolfsheim (synthpop. IMO), Sorrow (ambient), Manuskript (80s pop meets 90s guitar goth) or Antiworld ('in yer face' high velocity punk) and you're still a goth band if you play at goth festivals, get gigs in the usual goth venues via the usual goth promoters, and generally attract an audience that's composed of goths...

There might well be thematic links in there, with similar subject matter and tone, but the styles themselves are completely and utterly different, IMO.

Not that I'm about to go starting this debate on /goth, you understand, as I'm sure opinions vary. But you know what I mean. :)
mrph
12th Jun, 2002 16:48 (UTC)
"If it stays still long enough to be measured, it's probably dead" :-)

Nobody's really going to be able to dissect it until it's a dusty old museum piece, are they? In the mean time, new bands (and new material from old bands) will keep blurring the edges...
( 16 comments — Leave a comment )